I'm convinced that the World Treason Organization is out to destroy the Nation-State. We're not the only country that has problems with their treaties, but we are the only one that continually gets judgements against us.
How come when we fight for American Workers, American Products and American Jobs there is always a bad connotation? You are racist, you are a protectionist. For most of the benefits we have received we should bring a love for this great country of ours. It seems being a true American is not cool anymore.
btw, I am Ariel...that comment was from a link that I created in www.linkedin.com.
You are right somebody must have blinders to see the destruction of the economy and American middle class due to Free Trade and Outsourcing.
Funny thing though, the 11 caught because of the H1b Visa raid are all in linkedin.
When the credit card companies, banks took over the loan sharking business?
I mean that is insane, no one is going to be able to pay back a loan at 30% or 23% or 27% interest rates.
It's obscene and they are just waiting for an excuse to charge these rates, late fees and so on.
Let's say someone is treading water in paying off their debts, when a credit card company does this....they are guaranteeing that person sinks because there is no way they can now afford the payments and ballooning balance due to predatory interest rates.
secondly this was an immediate, fast moving stimulus legislation so outrage in this case appropriate.
If people do not know that jobs are being offshore outsourced due to labor arbitrage, i.e. for the purposes of lower wages and is hurting U.S. workers, especially tech workers they must be living in a box.
The waste of time is people who do not want to help U.S. workers and call their representatives to get Stimulus funds going to U.S. workers for jobs.
Was fourfould:
1. Credit Counseling- got all the cards negotiated down to a low rate and the accounts closed while I paid them off.
2. Separate accounts for personal and business use.
3. Debit cards on Joint & business accounts
4. Ten years of pain
As of right now, we're "officially" consumer debt free because my parents bought out the last $4000 of our credit card debt. According to Turbotax, we'll be able to pay them back in a month or so.
Next time you create an article, please take a step back for a minute and take a deep breath. This article is filled with opinionated conclusions and emtional convolution. "This is pure outrage!" You draw a conclusion without even presenting any facts, so then I'm supposed to read this with a frown on my face? The best way to get your point across is to present the facts first and then present some data of what has developed from similar events in the past. At that point, you would not have brought to my attention and others with my same attitude that the article is more than likely a waste of time.
There is no cap on interest rates/finance charges. They can change the terms whenever they want. And it has become difficult to operate in our financial system without a credit card.
is that capitalism is not the enemy. BIG is the enemy. Big anything. If a commune or church grows to big, it splits in the pain of schism. If a corporation grows too big, it forgets the community that spawned it. If a union grows too big, it becomes a money making scheme for the union management instead of being about the workers.
Big is bad is the most important lesson their experiment has to teach us.
I think it was Jim Kunstler who, last fall, wrote that "the next 20 years will be far different than the last 20 years." Certainly, if you read up on "peak oil" theories, anything but the current configuration will be the new order. It's ironic that the wisdom of pursuing smaller, more self-sufficient communities, which was so prevalent in the 60s and early 70s, was discredited as so much hippie talk. Well, they have a leg up on the rest of us and we need to find out what they have learned over their generation.
EVERYBODY is going to have a budget deficit. But to answer your question with a specific example- Oregon's Republican Party is on the ropes, almost bankrupt. The state is controlled by Democrats. And they're facing a $1.6 billion shortfall in the budget next biennium.
I don't really see a way forward with macroeconomics- every attempt at building an economy bigger than two degrees of friendship is highly vulnerable to centralization and fraud. The answer to me seems to be extreme decentralization, solidarity, and subsidiarity. We now have a worldwide information system that can make it work.
Start with agriculture- our main problem with agriculture right now is the gigantic risk genetic monoculture presents in any biosphere. So stop it- interview anthropologists and natives, find out what they ate during the hunter-gather period, and farm those plants and animals. This permaculture technique results in lower resource farming with increased yield, because you're using plants and animals that have evolved for your local climate. A good business model for this would be subscription farming- where the end consumer pays for the planting and land ahead of time, for a daily, weekly, or monthly delivery of produce.
Second, manufacturing. Even going organic/native with agriculture will produce a labor surplus. I suggest that the macroeconomics be for intellectual property only- local factories buy plans off the internet for local production of needed goods, employing local people. It isn't efficient, but it does mean that you get to meet the person who built your TV set or etched your microprocessor.
Third, services. Services I see as primarily government sector businesses- and as such, better done by machine than by any human. Which gives the manufacturing sector more to manufacture. One big service should be subsidies to make local manufacture and farming cheaper than any import.
I see us breaking humanity into over 6,500,000 small communities, of under 1000 people each. It's hard to commit fraud if doing so means you have to see your victims at family reunions.
We have a bunch of them. Friday Night Videos, Manufacturing Mondays which often shows up on Tuesdays...
notables & quotables...
Sunday Morning comics.
But remember, I am just hunting around for funny things, the original content is by, in this case the Daily Show, Steven Colbert and Professional Political cartoon writers. They are the funny ones and. They allow embedding (I think but esp w/ the images it's tough to figure out who did it and accredit them, even though their cartoons are all over the Internet already).
You say you're baffled by how we can feel "...that it makes sense to borrow money into existence in order to pay down the interest on previous money that was also borrowed into existence." Great point. Yet--as I'm sure you know--this is the very essence of our monetary system, and it's both pre and post-Keynesian. In truth, we've been bankrupt since 1930 and probably even before that. Money as legal fiction.:-)
I also suspect that the Chinese are no longer scratching their heads, but are now chuckling.
This article is indeed full of useful information. I agree with SOME of the article writers conclusions and draw a few of my own.
Derivatives are not going to cook the world's economy in spite of the massive amounts of money involved. The main problem still is mortgages and other loans for which the house or other security, was overvalued due to a classic "bubble" situation; and are now resuming their true values in relationship to income and GDP. This is a serious problem, as actual monetary value, which had been artificially "created" as the assetts rose in value and people borrowed against that value, is now in the process of being destroyed. There are enough trillions involved, to "cook the world's economy".
Derivatives, though, never had any inherent value as an assett like a house or a security or a share. They are like an insurance policy or a bet. We could add up the value of all the world's insurance policies and it would be higher than the $600 trillion value estimated for derivatives. A hypothetical event involving that that all insurance policies had to be paid out on, would be a similar catastrophe to all derivatives having to be paid out on; ignoring, of course, the destruction of assetts that required the insurance policies to be paid out on.
An even better analogy, is the gambling industry. If they suddenly and miraculously had to pay out on long odds on all bets placed with them simultaneously, they would of course be broke, and the people who had placed the bets would not get to collect their winnings. This is exactly what should happen with derivatives. I agree completely with the article writer that it is immoral and illegal that taxpayers money be used to pay out on these gambles. I agree too that prosecutions are in order if there was collusion between the dealers and/or the financial institution management; and the "counterparty" to the derivative.
But the net effect on the world economy is close to neutral, as what happens is that a whole lot of money gets transferred from some players in the system to some other players in the system. Sure, some have lost and some have won; but unlike with assett value bubbles, there has not suddenly been a whole lot of monetary value just evaporate. The "winners" have to do something with the money they have won. That is another question that the article writer should be asking, besides who these "winners" are: what are these "winners" doing with the money? Then we will see what part of the world's economy is being stimulated at the expense of those who have been on the losing end of the gambles, which includes of course the investors in the financial institutions that have collapsed. Of course, they might be buying gold.......
These investors were in all likelihood enjoying the handsome returns that resulted from the derivatives trade; therefore there is an element of morality in the risk factor coming back to bite them now. I think the article writer is too willing to prejudge fraudulent intentions on the part of the derivative dealers. Every level of this morass involved people acting perfectly knowingly on the assumption that house prices can never fall; the writers of subprime mortgages, house buyers, speculators, the bundlers of "CDO"'s and other securities; the purchasers of those securities; and the sellers of the derivatives and credit default swaps that were an "insurance" against the failure of those securities.
The only people in this whole process who laid their money on the line in a calculated gamble that there was a bubble about to burst, are the people who BOUGHT the derivatives as fast as the industry created them. The article writer is absolutely correct in insisting that the identity of these people become known. But even so, prosecution may not be justified.
These people are "guilty" of being able to assess a fake economic boom over which almost everybody else had lost their heads; note that there was no lack of warnings concerning this situation from hundreds of experts of which Ron Paul is merely a well-known example. Such people can hardly be blamed for taking the attitude that, "oh well, if you won't listen to me, don't blame me for making a pile on the side out of my superior wisdom".
Others will have kept their thoughts to themselves and quietly profited. I am picking that George Soros and John Paulson will be among the big winners. If Ron Paul and Peter Schiff and Paul Kasriel and Nouriel Roubini and the hundreds of other people we refused to listen to have profited from our stupidity, so be it. Another possibility is that clever "sovereign" operators such as the Chinese or the Saudis or the Russians are involved, perhaps even as a form of war on the USA.
The fact that Henry Paulson went down on bended knees pleading for the money to pay some of these "counterparties" out, gets one thinking.
Excellent writing. I think you've answered your own initial questions. Consider what has happened with Citi Group as a metaphor. It consolidated to achieve scale efficiencies, and now it's toppling...because it lacks a local organic basis. Hence, we need to re-examine what the new structures will look like...the Local credit Unions of the Future, as one example. Huge aggregate farming interests are also crumbling. Yet it need not fall into atomized chaos necessarily, but might just revert into older pre-consolidated systems. Again, great work.
Well, from all of my studies the world has been most Democratic, most fair, with strong middle classes. Then, in terms of how people are the concept of putting one's self last for the common good doesn't seem to work out too well. So, (hey NDD, you reading this?) there are some invisible sociological and psychological strings being implied here with architecting an economy.
I think they have sucked the life blood out of the middle class because ....they could and it's glorified wealth redistribution to a few elites and that too, throughout history leads to major suffering and eventually social unrest, corruption and implosion.
I think they believed, bizarrely that they would raise up middle classes globally, which of course is absurd and if it happens the timeline is such that they replaced the U.S. middle class...i.e. traded the US to become a banana Republic.
From what I'm seeing from other nations is our nation has very short term "quarterly" thinking and not a lot of long term strategy and especially in the national interest. They also do not seem to put any weight in the synergistic elements which make a great economy....i.e. they forgot Henry Ford's rule that the workers have to afford the products.
On the other side of the coin, one get get so many efficiencies in a system when designed by bureaucrats and special interests. I think there should almost be an "efficiency czar" to look at bureaucratic bottlenecks in a system and make it a point to get rid of them.
For example, back in the day of strong unions, well, a non-union person could not touch say a piece of furniture to move it in an office because that was a union job...well, things like that are inefficient and silly.
I think a middle class will also generate sustainability as well as the common good. We already have examples like state police, fire department, public libraries and we need more of those, the obvious being health.
Like right now I am looking at how this Stimulus will be distributed and very much who is going to get the contracts. Depending upon how that goes, this could be a disaster. Fraught with lobbyists, bureaucracies, inside deals are states so the devil in details is on the distribution of funds for projects.
I'd like to scream bloody murder on those I.T./tech projects but if and when those come up for bid/award, I will be posting on that like a mad dog. If they offshore outsource those I think America is going to blow up in outrage.
I'll have to go read up Herman Daly's stuff again. He's listed in the studies page on EP but a Herman Daly primer post would be cool.
2nd -- We've been told over and over that a strong middle class is the backbone of America, the basis of our economy. We compare that to third-world economies, with their oceans of poverty and delta-function distribution (for you math elitists) of wealth. So why have we spent the last 30 years gutting the middle class? Why is banana republic something to aspire to? And why oh why does the middle class buy it?
But a strong middle class does not by itself deal with either the commons or sustainability (though I would argue without it we'll get neither -- poverty is just as destructive as affluence).
Maybe someone can talk me down, but I fear the Rubinites in power just don't get any of this.
Why don't you create an account here?
I'm convinced that the World Treason Organization is out to destroy the Nation-State. We're not the only country that has problems with their treaties, but we are the only one that continually gets judgements against us.
How come when we fight for American Workers, American Products and American Jobs there is always a bad connotation? You are racist, you are a protectionist. For most of the benefits we have received we should bring a love for this great country of ours. It seems being a true American is not cool anymore.
btw, I am Ariel...that comment was from a link that I created in www.linkedin.com.
You are right somebody must have blinders to see the destruction of the economy and American middle class due to Free Trade and Outsourcing.
Funny thing though, the 11 caught because of the H1b Visa raid are all in linkedin.
When the credit card companies, banks took over the loan sharking business?
I mean that is insane, no one is going to be able to pay back a loan at 30% or 23% or 27% interest rates.
It's obscene and they are just waiting for an excuse to charge these rates, late fees and so on.
Let's say someone is treading water in paying off their debts, when a credit card company does this....they are guaranteeing that person sinks because there is no way they can now afford the payments and ballooning balance due to predatory interest rates.
secondly this was an immediate, fast moving stimulus legislation so outrage in this case appropriate.
If people do not know that jobs are being offshore outsourced due to labor arbitrage, i.e. for the purposes of lower wages and is hurting U.S. workers, especially tech workers they must be living in a box.
The waste of time is people who do not want to help U.S. workers and call their representatives to get Stimulus funds going to U.S. workers for jobs.
Was fourfould:
1. Credit Counseling- got all the cards negotiated down to a low rate and the accounts closed while I paid them off.
2. Separate accounts for personal and business use.
3. Debit cards on Joint & business accounts
4. Ten years of pain
As of right now, we're "officially" consumer debt free because my parents bought out the last $4000 of our credit card debt. According to Turbotax, we'll be able to pay them back in a month or so.
Ariel,
Next time you create an article, please take a step back for a minute and take a deep breath. This article is filled with opinionated conclusions and emtional convolution. "This is pure outrage!" You draw a conclusion without even presenting any facts, so then I'm supposed to read this with a frown on my face? The best way to get your point across is to present the facts first and then present some data of what has developed from similar events in the past. At that point, you would not have brought to my attention and others with my same attitude that the article is more than likely a waste of time.
A Washington Post article suggests that a bailout plan was crafted between Summers, Geithner, Sperling and another Clinton retread.
I hope and expect that they would have consulted other people with different perspectives then themselves but unfortunately I doubt it.
There is no cap on interest rates/finance charges. They can change the terms whenever they want. And it has become difficult to operate in our financial system without a credit card.
is that capitalism is not the enemy. BIG is the enemy. Big anything. If a commune or church grows to big, it splits in the pain of schism. If a corporation grows too big, it forgets the community that spawned it. If a union grows too big, it becomes a money making scheme for the union management instead of being about the workers.
Big is bad is the most important lesson their experiment has to teach us.
I think it was Jim Kunstler who, last fall, wrote that "the next 20 years will be far different than the last 20 years." Certainly, if you read up on "peak oil" theories, anything but the current configuration will be the new order. It's ironic that the wisdom of pursuing smaller, more self-sufficient communities, which was so prevalent in the 60s and early 70s, was discredited as so much hippie talk. Well, they have a leg up on the rest of us and we need to find out what they have learned over their generation.
EVERYBODY is going to have a budget deficit. But to answer your question with a specific example- Oregon's Republican Party is on the ropes, almost bankrupt. The state is controlled by Democrats. And they're facing a $1.6 billion shortfall in the budget next biennium.
I don't really see a way forward with macroeconomics- every attempt at building an economy bigger than two degrees of friendship is highly vulnerable to centralization and fraud. The answer to me seems to be extreme decentralization, solidarity, and subsidiarity. We now have a worldwide information system that can make it work.
Start with agriculture- our main problem with agriculture right now is the gigantic risk genetic monoculture presents in any biosphere. So stop it- interview anthropologists and natives, find out what they ate during the hunter-gather period, and farm those plants and animals. This permaculture technique results in lower resource farming with increased yield, because you're using plants and animals that have evolved for your local climate. A good business model for this would be subscription farming- where the end consumer pays for the planting and land ahead of time, for a daily, weekly, or monthly delivery of produce.
Second, manufacturing. Even going organic/native with agriculture will produce a labor surplus. I suggest that the macroeconomics be for intellectual property only- local factories buy plans off the internet for local production of needed goods, employing local people. It isn't efficient, but it does mean that you get to meet the person who built your TV set or etched your microprocessor.
Third, services. Services I see as primarily government sector businesses- and as such, better done by machine than by any human. Which gives the manufacturing sector more to manufacture. One big service should be subsidies to make local manufacture and farming cheaper than any import.
I see us breaking humanity into over 6,500,000 small communities, of under 1000 people each. It's hard to commit fraud if doing so means you have to see your victims at family reunions.
We have a bunch of them. Friday Night Videos, Manufacturing Mondays which often shows up on Tuesdays...
notables & quotables...
Sunday Morning comics.
But remember, I am just hunting around for funny things, the original content is by, in this case the Daily Show, Steven Colbert and Professional Political cartoon writers. They are the funny ones and. They allow embedding (I think but esp w/ the images it's tough to figure out who did it and accredit them, even though their cartoons are all over the Internet already).
(the text is mine).
Please, make this a regular feature. It's destined to be picked up by syndicates somewhere...maybe in China, since they have disposable income.:-)
You say you're baffled by how we can feel "...that it makes sense to borrow money into existence in order to pay down the interest on previous money that was also borrowed into existence." Great point. Yet--as I'm sure you know--this is the very essence of our monetary system, and it's both pre and post-Keynesian. In truth, we've been bankrupt since 1930 and probably even before that. Money as legal fiction.:-)
I also suspect that the Chinese are no longer scratching their heads, but are now chuckling.
This article is indeed full of useful information. I agree with SOME of the article writers conclusions and draw a few of my own.
Derivatives are not going to cook the world's economy in spite of the massive amounts of money involved. The main problem still is mortgages and other loans for which the house or other security, was overvalued due to a classic "bubble" situation; and are now resuming their true values in relationship to income and GDP. This is a serious problem, as actual monetary value, which had been artificially "created" as the assetts rose in value and people borrowed against that value, is now in the process of being destroyed. There are enough trillions involved, to "cook the world's economy".
Derivatives, though, never had any inherent value as an assett like a house or a security or a share. They are like an insurance policy or a bet. We could add up the value of all the world's insurance policies and it would be higher than the $600 trillion value estimated for derivatives. A hypothetical event involving that that all insurance policies had to be paid out on, would be a similar catastrophe to all derivatives having to be paid out on; ignoring, of course, the destruction of assetts that required the insurance policies to be paid out on.
An even better analogy, is the gambling industry. If they suddenly and miraculously had to pay out on long odds on all bets placed with them simultaneously, they would of course be broke, and the people who had placed the bets would not get to collect their winnings. This is exactly what should happen with derivatives. I agree completely with the article writer that it is immoral and illegal that taxpayers money be used to pay out on these gambles. I agree too that prosecutions are in order if there was collusion between the dealers and/or the financial institution management; and the "counterparty" to the derivative.
But the net effect on the world economy is close to neutral, as what happens is that a whole lot of money gets transferred from some players in the system to some other players in the system. Sure, some have lost and some have won; but unlike with assett value bubbles, there has not suddenly been a whole lot of monetary value just evaporate. The "winners" have to do something with the money they have won. That is another question that the article writer should be asking, besides who these "winners" are: what are these "winners" doing with the money? Then we will see what part of the world's economy is being stimulated at the expense of those who have been on the losing end of the gambles, which includes of course the investors in the financial institutions that have collapsed. Of course, they might be buying gold.......
These investors were in all likelihood enjoying the handsome returns that resulted from the derivatives trade; therefore there is an element of morality in the risk factor coming back to bite them now. I think the article writer is too willing to prejudge fraudulent intentions on the part of the derivative dealers. Every level of this morass involved people acting perfectly knowingly on the assumption that house prices can never fall; the writers of subprime mortgages, house buyers, speculators, the bundlers of "CDO"'s and other securities; the purchasers of those securities; and the sellers of the derivatives and credit default swaps that were an "insurance" against the failure of those securities.
The only people in this whole process who laid their money on the line in a calculated gamble that there was a bubble about to burst, are the people who BOUGHT the derivatives as fast as the industry created them. The article writer is absolutely correct in insisting that the identity of these people become known. But even so, prosecution may not be justified.
These people are "guilty" of being able to assess a fake economic boom over which almost everybody else had lost their heads; note that there was no lack of warnings concerning this situation from hundreds of experts of which Ron Paul is merely a well-known example. Such people can hardly be blamed for taking the attitude that, "oh well, if you won't listen to me, don't blame me for making a pile on the side out of my superior wisdom".
Others will have kept their thoughts to themselves and quietly profited. I am picking that George Soros and John Paulson will be among the big winners. If Ron Paul and Peter Schiff and Paul Kasriel and Nouriel Roubini and the hundreds of other people we refused to listen to have profited from our stupidity, so be it. Another possibility is that clever "sovereign" operators such as the Chinese or the Saudis or the Russians are involved, perhaps even as a form of war on the USA.
The fact that Henry Paulson went down on bended knees pleading for the money to pay some of these "counterparties" out, gets one thinking.
Excellent writing. I think you've answered your own initial questions. Consider what has happened with Citi Group as a metaphor. It consolidated to achieve scale efficiencies, and now it's toppling...because it lacks a local organic basis. Hence, we need to re-examine what the new structures will look like...the Local credit Unions of the Future, as one example. Huge aggregate farming interests are also crumbling. Yet it need not fall into atomized chaos necessarily, but might just revert into older pre-consolidated systems. Again, great work.
How many states that are going to have budget deficits are controlled by Democrats in which they have a majority in both the house and senate?
Well, from all of my studies the world has been most Democratic, most fair, with strong middle classes. Then, in terms of how people are the concept of putting one's self last for the common good doesn't seem to work out too well. So, (hey NDD, you reading this?) there are some invisible sociological and psychological strings being implied here with architecting an economy.
I think they have sucked the life blood out of the middle class because ....they could and it's glorified wealth redistribution to a few elites and that too, throughout history leads to major suffering and eventually social unrest, corruption and implosion.
I think they believed, bizarrely that they would raise up middle classes globally, which of course is absurd and if it happens the timeline is such that they replaced the U.S. middle class...i.e. traded the US to become a banana Republic.
From what I'm seeing from other nations is our nation has very short term "quarterly" thinking and not a lot of long term strategy and especially in the national interest. They also do not seem to put any weight in the synergistic elements which make a great economy....i.e. they forgot Henry Ford's rule that the workers have to afford the products.
On the other side of the coin, one get get so many efficiencies in a system when designed by bureaucrats and special interests. I think there should almost be an "efficiency czar" to look at bureaucratic bottlenecks in a system and make it a point to get rid of them.
For example, back in the day of strong unions, well, a non-union person could not touch say a piece of furniture to move it in an office because that was a union job...well, things like that are inefficient and silly.
I think a middle class will also generate sustainability as well as the common good. We already have examples like state police, fire department, public libraries and we need more of those, the obvious being health.
Like right now I am looking at how this Stimulus will be distributed and very much who is going to get the contracts. Depending upon how that goes, this could be a disaster. Fraught with lobbyists, bureaucracies, inside deals are states so the devil in details is on the distribution of funds for projects.
I'd like to scream bloody murder on those I.T./tech projects but if and when those come up for bid/award, I will be posting on that like a mad dog. If they offshore outsource those I think America is going to blow up in outrage.
I'll have to go read up Herman Daly's stuff again. He's listed in the studies page on EP but a Herman Daly primer post would be cool.
1st -- thanks for this forum
2nd -- We've been told over and over that a strong middle class is the backbone of America, the basis of our economy. We compare that to third-world economies, with their oceans of poverty and delta-function distribution (for you math elitists) of wealth. So why have we spent the last 30 years gutting the middle class? Why is banana republic something to aspire to? And why oh why does the middle class buy it?
But a strong middle class does not by itself deal with either the commons or sustainability (though I would argue without it we'll get neither -- poverty is just as destructive as affluence).
Maybe someone can talk me down, but I fear the Rubinites in power just don't get any of this.
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