There's a brisk business in recycling various industrial goods and some consumer goods. This is especially true in regards to computers. Now in China they do this the hazardous way with no respect to pollution and possible contamination. Many years ago, I was in California, and I think it was near San Mateo where they had this computer recycling firm. You should have seen it.
If it wasn't for planned obsolescence, at what point do we simply have "enough" of durable items like notebook computers and phones?
I suspect that there will one day be a business that mines landfills for 'naughties (2000-2010) tech to rebuild into netbook phones....and even that business will one day face complete market saturation.
They can spew protectionist trying to apply it to things that are not even being talked about...but mention a production economy or manufacturing and it's like a bunch of rats suddenly exposed to a cat. They flurry off to their holes waiting it out until that nasty cat is gone.
Manufacturing what? Production economy eh? Exports are who?
Does it bother you that something as obvious of a consumer economy eventually going broke because the consumer ain't got no mo' money doesn't seem to cross these people's lips?
Also and hopefully I will change this on the site upgrade (I'm working on that) but to reply to comments you have to hit the reply arrow at the bottom of the comment. A lot of people miss this arrow but the comments are threaded.
A little history of Financial Crises I have links to some fairly large papers analyzing government responses and one devoted to Sweden towards the bottom.
There are probably more out there but that's my own research into "round up".
Well, we are the Populists here, literally, we the people can write posts! I think you are right, we have rhetoric du jour spewing from D.C. and now it's catching on in other media but in terms of real policy change...
the idea that a corporation should not be allowed to commit criminal acts....like this absurd Ponzi scheme we are now suffering under....is still going by the way side, at least from policy makers, etc...
then we have really strange economic fictional something on pundit (does he even rank as a pundit?) Glenn Beck and so on just turning the anger into absurd non-answer answers..
it's like they are trying to harness the public anger again to promote changes that will either not work or make things worse.
They need a lot of help. From first appearance, ti looks like the banks get to stay in place, recover most of what they've loaned, and avoid prosecution. The article that Iwrote on Feb 1, 2008 discussed a TimesOnline story about the FBI looking "at the very top" of the housing bubble. More self promotion and deception. Nothing came of it.
If the set up and execution of this housing bubble isn't criminal, then what is? If the calculated effort to lift money from middle and working class Americans is 'forgiven,' then I say, let any criminal out of jail serving time for theft as long as the amount is less than the current TARP total.
The title of this board is prescient. There will be a lot of economic populism. It will come in a sanitized form to herd people away from truly systemic change. In fact, it may have come already. But real populism pushing equity and social justice has yet to emerge. It will be unmistakable and I think driven from the bottom up.
I don't think that the "leaders" will know it when they see it. All the better.
Thanks for the response. Can you pont me to a good link on the Swedish situation.
That company is so evil, from offshore outsourcing American jobs to encouraging illegal immigrants and people who clearly could not afford mortgages get them to influencing more bad trade deals....to demanding changing bankruptcy laws so desperate people could not get out of their debts to predatory credit practices...
Well, I'm not sure of what the shocks will be to the U.S. economy but to me, getting these cats out of the corporate lobbying business and bad practices in the long run would be awesome. Unfortunately one of the biggest players in the financial sector running the government will probably come out unscathed, that's Goldman Sachs.
But Citigroup, especially with the bad China trade deal going down...I ain't gonna cry over it!
More to the serious side, any analysis on what kind of impact this is going to have on the economy both Pro and Con?
Globalization & Contagion and it is astounding that they have in a nutshell, no friggin' clue on how all of these economies interact with their globalization agenda.
It probably would be an awesome post if someone focused in on the derivatives market exclusively on these topics.
This is the huge justification for the TARP and all of this banking system too big to fail mantra...they are all interconnected as well as globally connected.
Uh, didn't FDR do something about that and also wasn't that the idea of regulation and the separation of banks to only operate in certain financial sectors and so on?
Honestly while the causes have been described...I do not think I have seen a single post, article or research paper on this with respect to derivatives.
Robert, my good man, you make some good points there. I would still say, a proper hedging instrument with a proper exchange mechanism would fix this. If we had clearing, systematic risk can be curbed through proper margin system.
The minute we get into absolutes....you know something is smelly. That said, beyond the issue of a completely unregulated, unaudited, not monitored shadow banking system...here are two issues with these derivatives that I find disturbing:
1. Contagion
2. Systemic risk
When one corporation due to issuing insurance on another corporation can cause that second corporation to go crashing down on an independent corporate entity per which they have little control, that is like building a house on sand sticks.
Another major problem, which I believe Ritholtz is literally being censored in trying to expose....are the supposedly independent credit ratings agencies.
One does not even have institutions to accurately evaluate these vehicles, never mind the fact that experts cannot explain them.....they have obviously no friggin' clue on the contagion ramifications.
These derivatives are simply not being analyzed correctly...firstly they don't even seem to have a clue on just the individual derivative itself and if you can find it, I'd like to see it because it sure seems no one is modeling these individual CDOs as a package....i.e. together and seeing the bounds conditions in those cases.
This is true generally with the globalization agenda...there is hardly any attention being paid to the inter-dependencies and how these things interact.
So, building a system where one small sector can pull down the entire thing sure seems like bad architecture to me.
I just went over and reviewed this. First we have a problem that they are not economics writers/posters per say.
but bear in mind many of us also write on these same sites and there are some very good posts on many of them, founded in economic reality.
While EP is an economics site, non-partisan, the reality is we have a lot of people who truly are "Progressive bloggers" posting and that's because there are many forces trying to get sane economic policy that also strengthens the U.S. middle class....
The problem is these beyond insane open borders organizations, or unlimited migration trying to claim this would actually help the U.S. economy...when if this happened it would make the race to the bottom look like the cliff to the bottom...have invaded the left.
There are many Progressives and left head bloggers who know this is economic fiction and are squeezed out, silenced by the various name calling of racist xenophobe by these various groups.
So far, the posts have been focused on policies that are economically based, referencing some of the more well known Journalists etc. on some of these policies so that's all ok.
This person cannot do "drive by" posts. Many of us are cross posting but we are changing blog titles, linking over to EP so the site does not get punished for duplicate posts.
I think this person needs to stick to the requests and change that and if they are using the site as just some additional place to duplicate content, generate links and not communicate, comment, discuss....this is a problem.
I'll remove the immigration links from the posts since it is off-topic as well as promoting economic fiction.
And their About Page give a good reason why they're so one-sided. Their Top Ten Stories also gives a pretty good view what they're about. Pretty much the standard "World without borders, no traditional roles for anybody" motif.
most worthy of a blog post on the U.S. deficit, projected debt. There are now a lot of financial analysts asking about the U.S. debt and just this morning on CNBC I caught some sort of story about the Forex wiping out foreign profits by US Multinationals due to the currency exchange rate.
(which is another major post, let's talk about how MNCs play games with exchange rates, tax cuts and labor costs around the globe)
If a U.S. car was made like software it would breakdown every Tuesday and require an 8 hour upload. Periodically a major epidemic would happen with cars and hundreds of thousands would get sick. Zombie cars would also come about, trying to run over anything it their path as well as each other. If Microsoft designed cars we would have the United States Demolition Derby....
of course Microsoft would advertise the next newest model for just a few thousands more would not have these problems...but only after service pack 14.
Hoping to jump-start the financial system, the Obama administration is considering turning to a new program run by the Federal Reserve that has been a challenge to launch and depends heavily on hedge funds.
The Term Asset-backed Securities Loan Facility, or TALF, was announced in November after investors stopped buying securities backed by consumer debt. Under the $200 billion program, the Fed will make loans to almost any U.S. firm that is willing to use the government financing to buy securities tied to credit-card, small-business, student and auto loans.
In essence, the government, which doesn't want to buy these securities ...
That is one hell of a find. I had no idea they were trying to use U.S. taxpayer money as ante to play in the great Ponzi Hot Potato derivatives market.
We need a national manufacturing policy. A real crafted, analysis, specific and pointed U.S. agenda to revitalize U.S. manufacturing.
Give me some specifics here. I didn't read most of the posts being that except on that "immigration" link, which clearly was almost the open border news channel.
In 2007, the public debt was 36.8 percent of GDP, with a total debt of 65.5 percent of GDP.
It sounds like an understatement to me, but then can you believe any official numbers anymore?
On an unrelated note, your comparison to a car reminded me of something:
If the car industry was run like the computer software industry was run, cars would get 500 miles to the gallon, cost $50 to buy new, and once a year would blow up and kill everyone inside it.
Though it was the clutch plate and the fuel line more than the transmission and engine. One heck of a lot of smoke and flame one day when I drove it too hard- and suddenly NO power to the wheels.
There's a brisk business in recycling various industrial goods and some consumer goods. This is especially true in regards to computers. Now in China they do this the hazardous way with no respect to pollution and possible contamination. Many years ago, I was in California, and I think it was near San Mateo where they had this computer recycling firm. You should have seen it.
If it wasn't for planned obsolescence, at what point do we simply have "enough" of durable items like notebook computers and phones?
I suspect that there will one day be a business that mines landfills for 'naughties (2000-2010) tech to rebuild into netbook phones....and even that business will one day face complete market saturation.
They can spew protectionist trying to apply it to things that are not even being talked about...but mention a production economy or manufacturing and it's like a bunch of rats suddenly exposed to a cat. They flurry off to their holes waiting it out until that nasty cat is gone.
Manufacturing what? Production economy eh? Exports are who?
Does it bother you that something as obvious of a consumer economy eventually going broke because the consumer ain't got no mo' money doesn't seem to cross these people's lips?
Also and hopefully I will change this on the site upgrade (I'm working on that) but to reply to comments you have to hit the reply arrow at the bottom of the comment. A lot of people miss this arrow but the comments are threaded.
A little history of Financial Crises I have links to some fairly large papers analyzing government responses and one devoted to Sweden towards the bottom.
There are probably more out there but that's my own research into "round up".
Well, we are the Populists here, literally, we the people can write posts! I think you are right, we have rhetoric du jour spewing from D.C. and now it's catching on in other media but in terms of real policy change...
the idea that a corporation should not be allowed to commit criminal acts....like this absurd Ponzi scheme we are now suffering under....is still going by the way side, at least from policy makers, etc...
then we have really strange economic fictional something on pundit (does he even rank as a pundit?) Glenn Beck and so on just turning the anger into absurd non-answer answers..
it's like they are trying to harness the public anger again to promote changes that will either not work or make things worse.
They need a lot of help. From first appearance, ti looks like the banks get to stay in place, recover most of what they've loaned, and avoid prosecution. The article that Iwrote on Feb 1, 2008 discussed a TimesOnline story about the FBI looking "at the very top" of the housing bubble. More self promotion and deception. Nothing came of it.
If the set up and execution of this housing bubble isn't criminal, then what is? If the calculated effort to lift money from middle and working class Americans is 'forgiven,' then I say, let any criminal out of jail serving time for theft as long as the amount is less than the current TARP total.
The title of this board is prescient. There will be a lot of economic populism. It will come in a sanitized form to herd people away from truly systemic change. In fact, it may have come already. But real populism pushing equity and social justice has yet to emerge. It will be unmistakable and I think driven from the bottom up.
I don't think that the "leaders" will know it when they see it. All the better.
Thanks for the response. Can you pont me to a good link on the Swedish situation.
Just read this in Bloomberg:
That company is so evil, from offshore outsourcing American jobs to encouraging illegal immigrants and people who clearly could not afford mortgages get them to influencing more bad trade deals....to demanding changing bankruptcy laws so desperate people could not get out of their debts to predatory credit practices...
Well, I'm not sure of what the shocks will be to the U.S. economy but to me, getting these cats out of the corporate lobbying business and bad practices in the long run would be awesome. Unfortunately one of the biggest players in the financial sector running the government will probably come out unscathed, that's Goldman Sachs.
But Citigroup, especially with the bad China trade deal going down...I ain't gonna cry over it!
More to the serious side, any analysis on what kind of impact this is going to have on the economy both Pro and Con?
Ok, who is going to write the nasty blast post on Obama and his NAFTA promises vs. what just happened today?
I'm out of my daily outrage quota.
It has always been about class warfare
Globalization & Contagion and it is astounding that they have in a nutshell, no friggin' clue on how all of these economies interact with their globalization agenda.
It probably would be an awesome post if someone focused in on the derivatives market exclusively on these topics.
This is the huge justification for the TARP and all of this banking system too big to fail mantra...they are all interconnected as well as globally connected.
Uh, didn't FDR do something about that and also wasn't that the idea of regulation and the separation of banks to only operate in certain financial sectors and so on?
Honestly while the causes have been described...I do not think I have seen a single post, article or research paper on this with respect to derivatives.
Robert, my good man, you make some good points there. I would still say, a proper hedging instrument with a proper exchange mechanism would fix this. If we had clearing, systematic risk can be curbed through proper margin system.
The minute we get into absolutes....you know something is smelly. That said, beyond the issue of a completely unregulated, unaudited, not monitored shadow banking system...here are two issues with these derivatives that I find disturbing:
1. Contagion
2. Systemic risk
When one corporation due to issuing insurance on another corporation can cause that second corporation to go crashing down on an independent corporate entity per which they have little control, that is like building a house on sand sticks.
Another major problem, which I believe Ritholtz is literally being censored in trying to expose....are the supposedly independent credit ratings agencies.
One does not even have institutions to accurately evaluate these vehicles, never mind the fact that experts cannot explain them.....they have obviously no friggin' clue on the contagion ramifications.
These derivatives are simply not being analyzed correctly...firstly they don't even seem to have a clue on just the individual derivative itself and if you can find it, I'd like to see it because it sure seems no one is modeling these individual CDOs as a package....i.e. together and seeing the bounds conditions in those cases.
This is true generally with the globalization agenda...there is hardly any attention being paid to the inter-dependencies and how these things interact.
So, building a system where one small sector can pull down the entire thing sure seems like bad architecture to me.
I just went over and reviewed this. First we have a problem that they are not economics writers/posters per say.
but bear in mind many of us also write on these same sites and there are some very good posts on many of them, founded in economic reality.
While EP is an economics site, non-partisan, the reality is we have a lot of people who truly are "Progressive bloggers" posting and that's because there are many forces trying to get sane economic policy that also strengthens the U.S. middle class....
The problem is these beyond insane open borders organizations, or unlimited migration trying to claim this would actually help the U.S. economy...when if this happened it would make the race to the bottom look like the cliff to the bottom...have invaded the left.
There are many Progressives and left head bloggers who know this is economic fiction and are squeezed out, silenced by the various name calling of racist xenophobe by these various groups.
So far, the posts have been focused on policies that are economically based, referencing some of the more well known Journalists etc. on some of these policies so that's all ok.
This person cannot do "drive by" posts. Many of us are cross posting but we are changing blog titles, linking over to EP so the site does not get punished for duplicate posts.
I think this person needs to stick to the requests and change that and if they are using the site as just some additional place to duplicate content, generate links and not communicate, comment, discuss....this is a problem.
I'll remove the immigration links from the posts since it is off-topic as well as promoting economic fiction.
And their About Page give a good reason why they're so one-sided. Their Top Ten Stories also gives a pretty good view what they're about. Pretty much the standard "World without borders, no traditional roles for anybody" motif.
most worthy of a blog post on the U.S. deficit, projected debt. There are now a lot of financial analysts asking about the U.S. debt and just this morning on CNBC I caught some sort of story about the Forex wiping out foreign profits by US Multinationals due to the currency exchange rate.
(which is another major post, let's talk about how MNCs play games with exchange rates, tax cuts and labor costs around the globe)
If a U.S. car was made like software it would breakdown every Tuesday and require an 8 hour upload. Periodically a major epidemic would happen with cars and hundreds of thousands would get sick. Zombie cars would also come about, trying to run over anything it their path as well as each other. If Microsoft designed cars we would have the United States Demolition Derby....
of course Microsoft would advertise the next newest model for just a few thousands more would not have these problems...but only after service pack 14.
That is one hell of a find. I had no idea they were trying to use U.S. taxpayer money as ante to play in the great Ponzi Hot Potato derivatives market.
We need a national manufacturing policy. A real crafted, analysis, specific and pointed U.S. agenda to revitalize U.S. manufacturing.
Give me some specifics here. I didn't read most of the posts being that except on that "immigration" link, which clearly was almost the open border news channel.
It sounds like an understatement to me, but then can you believe any official numbers anymore?
On an unrelated note, your comparison to a car reminded me of something:
If the car industry was run like the computer software industry was run, cars would get 500 miles to the gallon, cost $50 to buy new, and once a year would blow up and kill everyone inside it.
Though it was the clutch plate and the fuel line more than the transmission and engine. One heck of a lot of smoke and flame one day when I drove it too hard- and suddenly NO power to the wheels.
The News Ladder in general is corporate globalist left wing for the most part.
NOT grounded in either science or mathematics, but with a definite New World Order agenda.
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